Episode 321 ControlTalk NOW — The HVAC and Smart Building Controls VideoCast and Podcast Features Two Great Interviews and More from Realcomm 2019

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In case you missed it...

Transcript of Episode 321

ric Stromquist 0:01
The following is a presentation of the ControlTrends podcasting network.

Hi, welcome to ControlTalk Now,  you’re smart buildings video cast and podcast for the week ending June 23rd 2019. This is Eric Stromquist and you are listening or watching to Episode 321 of ControlTalk Now k as we talk about all things HVAC and Smart Building  Controls, all things Pittsburgh, Steeler football and whatever else. You’re close to mind, the man, the myth, the legend, the one, the only Kenny smilers wants to talk about Kenny, welcome to the

show. What do you want to talk about this week?

Ken Smyers 0:38
Well, I’m going to have our game tonight someone talking about the pirates real quick now the you know what the Steelers are already on the field. So the years go by so fast. I think that we’re already through June. It’s next week will be in July. So it’s incredible. But our industry is moving at a lightning pace to and you know, we we had a fabulous week on by I mean, we were down to Nashville, Tennessee. And so some of the smartest epileptic intelligently gifted systems. Hang on is a collective knock at galactic. I said I said, eclectic. Okay, very

Eric Stromquist 1:13
good. Very good. I must have misheard you. I don’t have good headphones on I mama hit? Well, you told me on vacation. So we’re up in the mountains in North Georgia. So you

Ken Smyers 1:21
taught me how to do that. Even if they said it wrong. And the other person says it right? You always say that’s what I said. And then it makes me look

Eric Stromquist 1:28
good. He says everything’s very accurate. We saw some very collected, like, Jim, those collected people. But go ahead and Danny. And then I want to say about my daughter’s experience here at the lake real quick. But let’s talk to more about Nashville.

Ken Smyers 1:42
No, it just it was a lot of fun. Again, the the collaboration that took place, the dissemination of new technology, the innovation that was apparent, and some of the strong, you know, critical trends, cyber security, data analytics frameworks, but more importantly was the technology is here. It’s just the you know, the acceptance rate of adoption is mysterious to a lot of people because we look out on the floor. We’re seeing this deep technology ready and able to go in and solve a lot of problems. But there’s just seems to be some sort of bridging issue, where marrying up, you know, the ability to provide the solutions and actually take them on board all the different buildings throughout North America and the world. There’s just it just doesn’t seem to be as California between the two parts. But it’s going to be worked out because the technology is impressive. And it’s here. And it’s scalable, and it’s affordable. So we got to see that firsthand. And it was really exciting.

Eric Stromquist 2:35
Right, I think it’s getting to be more scalable. And you know, again, hats off to the team at tritium, Teresa and Ed Merlin and those guys. They’re major players there. I was kind of blown away by how many people from Microsoft and Intel were there, specifically Microsoft, the zoo, or, you know, Kenny and I shot I think we’ve got 40 or 50 gigs of video footage, we actually shot we live stream as much as we could. So if you’re subscribe on the ControlTrends, YouTube, I know, you got to see some of the live streams. But we’ll be posting those videos. But Microsoft just had a not only a prolific, I’m sorry, not only an epileptic, but a prolific group of people that Microsoft was ur as Is there a galactic?

front talk about

that, Kenny, how do you see as your point into it? And do you see that you see them? Some of the people that we deal with going to absorb? Do you see like, you know, going from the controller to tritium to us or something like that.

Ken Smyers 3:30
I think the is very impressive. And like you said, we had some great interviews there. And the one that really impressed me the most was the German fellow that came out of the company in Texas. So I think in a minute, but also jcvi Johnson Controls and the relationship they have with Microsoft Azure was amazing, because the collaboration, again, we talked about, in other words, the ability to you know, do data in the cloud is a certain expertise that you don’t want to try to do yourself internally tonight how big your company is, you know. And so we’re seeing that, in this Microsoft product, is it scalable to down down to the single person down to a very small business all the way up into the $90 billion companies that we saw, you’re working with them. So we’re at the present in 32, Microsoft is your partners are there. And every one of them had an incredible story, the equipment manufacturer, the office components Steelcase, it was just amazing. Because everybody needs to know where everything’s at now and it can be there. The problem is, you know, who’s going to manage it? And do you want to throw that into the cloud to somebody that’s very capable, very competent, right? very secure, like Microsoft, or you want to try to do that on board. So you have a lot of people that believe that they still want to do it locally. They want to have was a great comment by john Patsy about, you know, the actual hybrid is what we need to start talking about high reading solutions where it’s not all or nothing or

Eric Stromquist 4:55
nothing at all the edge or the enterprise. Right. Yeah. So

I mean, we got to see it even in between. So yeah, the middleware, but I tell you what, our industry has something to be very, very, very proud of Kenny and I don’t think you’ve thought about this yet. But I think it bodes well for the type of people in our industries and the way we row as an industry. So Microsoft is there, Google’s there, Facebook’s there, who is afraid to Intel’s there who’s afraid to show up in our industry because he knows or bad as is like Kim Meyers, Jeff Bebo’s, Amazon is not there, I say is because he’s looking around going, man, I cannot compete with these guys, because I just can’t drop the price because these guys know what they’re doing. So hats off to our industry there. And Kenny we’ve we’ve we’re going to talk some more about it. We got two great guests this week. We’ve got our sponsor this week is dg Lux, and we’ve got a link on the website, man. They do great stuff to men and black. They’ve been sponsoring the show here for the last month. If you want to be a sponsor on the show, there’s a link you just reach out to me at HPC control pro at gmail. com or CT marketing at gmail. com and we can get you the specs on them. But Kenny, I’m on vacation this week, so I’m in a bit of a silly mode but you know I’ve got my six year old Evelyn grace. my four year old axle be we’re up here at the lake man their plan. This is where my parents like house where I grew up there playing on the same little beach I played. It’s bringing back memories, man, it’s making me feel young. It’s making me feel happy. It’s make you feel silly. But one of the greatest event a dad can have his watch as my daughter Evelyn grace, my six year old caught her first fish need and talking about women and she’s down there right now they’re fishing and she just can’t get enough with the fishing and she’s named all the fish and because you know, we’re fishing were bred off the dock. So you see all the fish and she’s got all granddad no Grandma, the little baby minnows and and he talked him says big times, but we’re having a good time here. But listen, dude, I digress, you

Ken Smyers 6:59
get thrown back kiss was wrong back with you.

Eric Stromquist 7:02
for x, Axl tries to kiss him and then we throw him back. But I think

Ken Smyers 7:07
there’s some folks I know that they’d love catching the fresh fish fish. And then they have that they cook them right then and there. But them. You know, I just want to mention one more thing about Microsoft, we’re trying to talk about the mighty, you know, companies that are you mentioned AWS, or Amazon. And we saw some companies that were going to be talking about later on, near future where they have the biggest, you know, they have AWS, they have Microsoft, and they have Google and they’re in the cloud and in certain companies have the ability to work with all three of those major cloud players. But I really got a sensational kick out of the Microsoft is your platform and easy IO or two products nominated for the same category for new technology. I thought was that that’s that’s Samson and Goliath there, because it was amazing how I should

Eric Stromquist 7:54
have regulations adulation to easy IO for being in that category, Gina Elliot, Mike Marston I

Ken Smyers 8:00
so so that’s, that’s just fabulous, you know, just to be in that same kind of, you know, grouping, but it’s just it was about technology, not necessarily volume, or who has the biggest sales It was about, you know, innovation in the particular market you’re in and the impact it made in the real world. So

Eric Stromquist 8:16
so I just said it’s a trick is my question for you is and I guess my question for most of our community is when you got a David and Goliath situation, who do you usually root for?

Ken Smyers 8:23
I thought you were gonna correctly because I said Samson and Goliath and you didn’t let me go on that witness. And I already know you know, I’m trying

to be two o’clock, six o’clock city. I collected x electrical,

Eric Stromquist 8:36
electrical. But I tell you what, that’s going to go into Wikipedia after this episode, I’m sure but, but I think most people for that pull for the underdog. I know I do. I mean, everybody was, I think, with the exception of this statistic, I saw Kenny, with the exception of nobody in California. Everybody else was pulling for Toronto to win the game.

Ken Smyers 8:55
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think the David and Goliath thing is, is for real. People love underdogs. And they love to see spirit in innovation, fight and ingenuity. And, again, that was what that was, the show was just an amazing display of what’s available. And whether it’s data analytics, or whether it’s the things that intelligent buildings were doing with the post we have will be talking about that real quick. But you know, monitoring stuff 24 seven, using machine to machine I mean, so that you take the human element out of it. You leave people have serious burdens, and it’s all being done through some incredible, you know, program and then just genius. You know, I

Eric Stromquist 9:33
think it’s ingenious, and speaking that Kenny, what a great segue. We didn’t even rehearse this. But I think you know, our first guest is teed up when you talk about monitoring and stuff like that new technology. Let’s bring him on. Actually, it’s not too new technologies, new technology to us. So how about introducing our first guest?

Ken Smyers 9:47
love to have Michael had the Midwest account manager for our LTE technologies. Welcome to the show, Mike. Mike.

Unknown Speaker 9:55
Hey, yeah, thanks, guys. Appreciate the opportunity. definitely excited to get introduced inside of the community and be working with you as well. Yeah, well, you’re no

Eric Stromquist 10:04
stranger to communities, but quite a few years in the industry. So tell us a bit about your background building automation controls, and then we want to find out what are le technologies doing and how they fit into the past?

Michael Hadt 10:14
Absolutely. Thank you. So yeah, I’ve been in been in the business in the industry, a little over 1210 years actually started with a small proprietary controls group. And then I guess you can say, graduated into building automation distribution, for the last eight years or so. So really got got exposed into a lot of the different technology and how it works and integrates, and really how it’s got to be implemented as well. Some of the challenges that that go with that as well, you know,

Eric Stromquist 10:43
right? Well, sort of with that background, speak a bit from that perspective is most of our communities involved in market building controls and similar types capacity, but speak about our LP technology, sort of, from the perspective of a guy who’s been in the industry for a while, what’s your

Michael Hadt 11:00
guys do? Sure thing. So r le technologies. It’s actually our 35 year anniversary this year. So we’re not new to the business, we’ve developed a lot of cool technology, and implemented all around the world. We have headquarters currently in Fort Collins, Colorado. And, you know, the core of the business is really around environment monitoring, leak detection, as well as raised floors. So you know, the goal of what we’re trying to accomplish is really to prevent disasters, preserve and protect your assets, while also providing peace of mind.

Ken Smyers 11:38
Well, it’s pretty awesome. I yeah. I do remember r L. E technologies on a gas detection job while back and yeah, so you guys have been around. I think, I think though that you’re coming to the forefront. I think your initiative and your efforts are you are led into a more focused areas of the building automation, so that you guys probably did a lot of you’ve already made things for other people, they relabelled and you put them out into the into the industry, unbeknownst to people, but so what’s going on right now? Why is our le making a move? Now? what’s what’s so what’s what’s, why is this timing, so critical now that you’re making your move?

Michael Hadt 12:15
Now, I appreciate you asking, you know, we’ve been in the business for a long time, we’ve, we’ve had a lot of DNA really developed and maintained. And we’re really well known inside of the data center industry, and some of those other critical spaces. But over the last year and a half or so we’ve started to develop some other new products as well as make the old ones better, right. So you know, integrating these data points into a larger enterprise scheme is, is really where the future of the business is going, right? There’s so many ways to do it, there’s so many ways to connect the data. You know, it’s really to solve the problem. And that’s what’s fascinating to me is just the convergence of how all this technology comes together to drive a drive an outcome to solve a problem. You know, so we’re we’re going now and really pushing inside of the automation space is really making sure that folks know we have some pretty cool products that are simple to install are very reliable transmissions have great battery lives, and really solve some of the niche problems inside of those buildings that, you know, maybe you’re kind of overlooking. Well, not

Eric Stromquist 13:18
only that you got a cool name for those integration products, that you got a bunch of different products. But the one that sort of I tuned into immediately was the Raptor, including the RFID wing, and some of those other products speak about that portfolio products and like our community is going to really be excited about that.

Michael Hadt 13:36
Yeah, yeah. Well, I appreciate you asking. It’s a pretty fierce group of birds that we’re we’re working with there. So the the FMS and the wing are really, I think the two platforms, I think the automation community can can appreciate the most, you know, on the FMS side, it’s really geared around environment monitoring, if I can take a quick plug here and hate to do it, but you know, this is this is an F 200 little devices got eight digital inputs, it’s got leaked, and it’s got a relay output a user interface. So its net workable, could be standalone or integrated mode bus, you know, has a lot of the robust little device that has a lot of can do with temperature monitoring, as well, one wire monitoring, the other SMS product that we’ve really designed to help implementation and, you know, create some of those efficiencies was with our winning wireless, this is one of the temps sensors, simple as that pop the battery in it auto discovers into the gateway, give it a name, set it up on the network, and you’re basically done. I mean, I hate to make anything sound so simple, but that’s really the way it works. So yeah, bring it to the marketplace and give those those integrators something easy to integrate, not make it more difficult than they already got to deal with

Eric Stromquist 14:46
your 12 year battery life on that. Right, right, Mike?

Michael Hadt 14:49
Yeah, yep. So there’s a 10 to 12 year battery life on the sensor, sensors and transmitters, there, they transmit every 10 to 20 seconds back to the gateway out of the wing manager IP based so it’ll it’ll talk back that my bus and as an MP, the Raptor line you mentioned earlier, we’ve we’ve created a kind of a scaled down version to integrate back that MSP and my boss, are you out of that guy. You know, so so just adding data to the infrastructure, ultimately giving some of these controls vendors, more data to either do analytics, do cool, crazy graphics, or even just make the building operate better. And, you know, some of those areas you’re trying to pull data, or get data, I should say, was really the goal and the intent of what we’re building and delivering to the market.

Ken Smyers 15:34
Oh, my God, it’s it’s great opportunities out there. And there’s a lot of challenges to as we spoke offline there a minute ago, the some of the big challenges are the technologies here. And you just mentioned several versions of great technology simplified a lot of things for the building management integration, you know, you have with gives you the website later on here. But we have a problem with shortage of people that know how to do things and do them well. And they need all the help they can get. So if I understood you correctly, you’re probably talking about one more simplified installation startup, most commissioning and getting off the job. Let’s go to a little bit slower. So So a typical contractor first involvement might be how and what could they expect to that user interface?

Michael Hadt 16:16
Sure, yeah. Well, I appreciate you bringing that up. Because that’s definitely one of the biggest challenges that I think I’ve seen, as well as the community as well, as you know, the the software licensing the technical know how to even operate and turn on the software is always a challenge. So you know, one of the things we’ve been able to accomplish, and really hats off to Donna, Don Raymond, in the engineering team, was to streamline and simplify that process. So, you know, this guy does have a user interface built into it. And it’s very intuitive, simple to set up. I mean, if, which is what we were getting at a moment ago, with, you know, the skilled labor that’s out there, we’ve now created an opportunity for a larger percentage of the workforce to actually be able to go and take this and deliver this out to the marketplace.

Eric Stromquist 17:07
That’s amazing. Absolutely amazing. So do you guys have like a case studies? Now? Did you see how much percentage wise how much time it reduces installation costs, or if you don’t do sort of a best case, best case, guesstimate.

Michael Hadt 17:22
Obviously, based on every scenario is different, right? You know, with with the F 200. It’s couldn’t really give you a percentage, but I can tell you from a guy like me setting it up and being able to get 90% of it done without much much assistance, I’ll tell you that’s, that’s a pretty big, pretty big swing. And then especially on the wireless side, you know, being able to pop a tab out of here, pop a battery, and give it a name and put it on a network, obviously, reducing all your wiring costs. And all of that could be pretty significant. Obviously, based on based on the job and what you’re really trying to accomplish.

Ken Smyers 17:58
Well, I’m impressed, I had a chance to go over your website and see some of the products and I again, I’ve seen your products before, but I don’t think you guys took it to the forefront now. So now you’re emerging as a building automation company, that that’s insane, because it’s a great kind of a stepping out announcement. But the reality is, and we just come recently, from the real calm, I become 2019. And we’ve heard again, that there’s 5 million buildings out there, the market is immense. 80% of the buildings don’t have anything more than a thermostat. Some of them don’t even have night setback or 24. You know, you’re scheduling your thermostat, so it’s terrible. So what we’re trying to do is we’re trying to induce our our community and other communities to get involved, learn whatever you need to get to, so that we can deal with this, we have the technology. So what are some of the other challenges? So we talked about labor skill force, and what else do you think could be the headwinds that prevent this technology from just just take it off?

Michael Hadt 18:58
As Sure, sure. So, you know, tradition, I think there’s a lot of open systems out there, right. And open systems really are open protocols being able to talk together, where, you know, but you still need a proprietary software to operate it. where, you know, again, we’re already kind of took the stance was to create an open framework device, that that can be standalone or integrated. You know, so being able to deploy your technical staff to go and solve the problems or even, you know, I like to, I like to think of it a lot of times as, as another step forward to help a customer solve a problem, it doesn’t always have to be the big grandiose, you know, proposal, if if all they’re trying to do is monitor, you know, a couple dozen points inside of a building, we got a couple ways, different ways to do it, that are affordable and easy to deploy, you know, so even since they are integrated, you know, pushing it up to an analytic and then letting a energy analyst, you know, kind of use the data to kind of reconnect mission, our systems operating as a very doable option as well. So it doesn’t always have to be a standard, you know, stay in place, it could be moved mobile, and move around to help kind of create some of that visibility and some of the different spaces you don’t normally see.

Ken Smyers 20:16
Nice. Well, the thing I think, too, is that you talk scalability there. So we’re talking about real basic monitoring a couple points getting into the analytic mode, where can do some benefit and make some strategies from it. But you also actually serve your markets include data centers, airplay, I mean, you guys go from from a very small application to a very large tell us about summit scalability.

Michael Hadt 20:37
Yeah. So that’s, that’s kind of the fun part about being here with RFID is, you know, the core business was historically always in data centers, you had to have a reliable product that gave you visibility and and work. You know, there’s, you know, you can’t have any delay in any kind of an alarm, if you know, a cabinet gets too hot, or their waters entered into a space. Now, even with our triad raise floor line, how much money is spent producing cold air for that space, the last thing it hits is the raised floor tiles that are pushing your up, we have a fin on the bottom of our triad brand, slotted in Sanford panels that even push air more efficiently to the datacenter cabinets as well. So kind of a holistic view of all the different parts and pieces and how everything comes together to really drive the outcome.

Eric Stromquist 21:26
That’s very, very cool. And you know, one of the things in your website, you talk about facility monitoring the critical facility monitoring solutions. And you know, I don’t think a lot about leak detection. But when you’re talking about leaks, I mean, especially with data centers, water is a killer. What are some other things you guys are able to monitor for Leak Detection?

Unknown Speaker 21:47
Yeah, so

Michael Hadt 21:49
sorry, I mentioned the data centers. But you know, the the big push that we’re also inside of is a lot of healthcare. Critical spaces, I actually just did a job, where they were re retrofitting a basement where they were putting a $4 million machine. And ironically, they were drain pipes right above the machine. So why not throw a couple grand worth of Leak Detection in place to protect that $4 million investment that’s there, you know, and obviously, some of the other attempts and building pressures inside of those spaces, would be an easy deployment as well. We’re inside of schools and universities, though to a lot of those as Can you mention our older buildings and trying to get data to and in and out of those buildings. And even some of those older systems is pretty challenging. You know, the airports you mentioned as well. They’re big spaces. There’s a lot of different opportunity inside of those, especially when you start thinking about the food vending and, you know, health and safety factors, as well as the the leak detection and waters well. Some of the cool jobs I’ve also seen us put some stuff into is stadiums and museums, we just got an order in for one of the largest museums in the in the country, which I probably learned a little bit more about here, we get some case studies written as well about that stuff. But you know, some of the other storage facilities, even refrigerated storage. So you know that the spectrum of what we can cover is really pretty, pretty nice and robust in that in that sense that we can do it reliably.

Eric Stromquist 23:15
Right? And it looks like you guys also offer startup and commissioning speak about that, if you would,

Michael Hadt 23:20
yeah. So that’s a that’s a service that, again, knowing the shortage of manpower that’s out there, and some of the, you know, critical nature of those facilities, we wanted to make sure that we were offering some services out to the marketplace to, to do some startup and conditioning, even come out and do some training for the, you know, the technicians that would be outside doing the implementations. We do provide a certification class as well. That’s in Fort Collins currently, but we’re going to start traveling out to some of the sites as well, maybe you’ll see us at Strom quest one day, you know, so, you know, we’re delivering some of those, some of those man, man hours needed in that marketplace where we know there’s a shortage.

Ken Smyers 24:02
Well, you don’t like the, again, just for the benefit of the ControlTrends community ControlTrends community, but I didn’t realize how large you guys, were you actually a global company. So but you’re you’re headquartered in Colorado. Tell us a little bit about your the extensive, you know, delivery that you have, well, where are you busy, we’re

Michael Hadt 24:21
busy everywhere, which is a good thing. So yeah, headquartered again, in Colorado, all of our distribution stems from Fort Collins. The other nice thing though, I do want to make sure to mention is the majority of our products are made here in the United States. So, you know, we control the manufacturing, we control the quality of everything. Actually, since I brought that up, there’s a pretty proud of a stat that was a DPM defective parts per million we just had last last year was only 12. So it was it was it was impressive. The quality of the products that are built, but from a distribution arm. Yeah, I mean, we’re in the UK, we’re in Australia, we’re in Singapore, we got guys all over the world selling, selling our equipment and delivering it to their marketplace. Very cool.

Eric Stromquist 25:11
I think I’ve had to some of you guys up, just based on what I’m doing. We’re just meeting for the first time, Mike, which is awesome. So thank you for coming on the show. And Mike, you know, found us. You know, if you’re interested in a guest on control talk now, there’s a little box up there on the website, ControlTrends. com, fill it out. And that’s how Mike found us. So, but Mike, If I had to describe you guys, I would say you play well with others, because it kind of doesn’t matter whose system you want to integrate to as long as I do my bus back now to one of the other open protocols. You guys can rock and roll. And if I’m understanding correctly, even with your, your transmitters for your sensors, they’ll play well with other sensors as well. Right? So you don’t have to use your sensors. We probably should but but you know, we got a particular brand he likes to use. true statement, you guys can integrate with other people’s centers as well.

Michael Hadt 25:59
Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate you saying that one of my favorite devices we sell is the brother to this guy, this is the wing di but the brother to it is the wing analog. So being sensor agnostic, we can literally connect any sensor outputs zero to five volts, zero to 10 volt zero to 20 milliamps as the output to this guy to transmit wireless back to the gateway. So being center agnostic, obviously, that’s, that’s a big deal, because I don’t care who censored is I just want the output to make the deliverable more effective. Right, right. And then let the the sorry, with the other line of the 10th humidity sensors, we have a differential airflow, we actually have wireless leak detection, there’s a third Mr. We’re actually coming out here with an air velocity sensor as well. So you know, the the bench of being able to deliver the data to the community or the enterprise, BMS is certainly available out there. And, and and done reliably with 900 megahertz today.

Eric Stromquist 27:02
Very, very cool.

Ken Smyers 27:03
What is what is the biggest

Eric Stromquist 27:04
misconception or mistakes that owners or customers make regarding wireless, that you experience,

Michael Hadt 27:15
I just think there’s so much of it out there. And not that any of its bad, I’m not saying anything negative about any of them. But when you start putting them in dense environments, Bluetooth, and ocean z, and you know, some of the lower versions of 418 megahertz, things like that, they just don’t penetrate well and have the range that that’s needed. And then you know, there’s typically always some kind of a gateway to aggregate all that and then pass it out. So, you know, some of the challenges a lot of times is, is just placement of where you’re going to put it and not taking the time to really look at the space and what’s all around the space. Whereas, you know, the deployment on the wing manager, it’s got all of the radio frequencies and noise available right there. So as you’re deploying them, you can see, do I need to move it three feet to the right, or, you know, move it up or down, or, you know, maybe I need to add another range extender. You know, and, and those are extremely powerful. So we’ve gone couple floors up couple floors down with just a single range extender and covering, you know, up to an additional thousand feet. So, you know, I think for us, it’s the range of the radio frequency. But, you know, as I talked about that, I guess I’ll jump to it. You know, one of the things that we’re also coming out with here and finalizing some development and beta testing on is the Wi Fi sensor line that we’re going to end up incorporating into the wing manager as well. So it’ll you know, you took

Ken Smyers 28:45
my that was my next question, because I knew that our le had some future developments in Wi Fi, you know, we talked about the different wireless, you know, deployments and you know, the benefits. And we recently wrote something about an ocean here coming up with how, you know, it doesn’t seem like any particular wireless other than Wi Fi is bubbling up to be the the choice they’d be had its run for a while and a couple of leading manufacturers featured Ziggy products. And once the Niagara framework, put the antennas on there, and we saw, you know, just a surge in wireless product, because now all of a sudden, and I thought it was genius, whoever came up with the ability to take it in ocean point or a wireless point on a committed back that points but what’s going on with wireless? So you guys, are you promoting Wi Fi is you do wildfire with the 802

Michael Hadt 29:35
G, and the way it’s developed in the way it’s maintained and fixed all the time to be the number one wireless. You know, it’s hard to say because there’s there’s a lot of environments that don’t have good wireless out there or don’t have a good infrastructure currently. So the the 900 megahertz for us really does penetrate walls well and has great range have been inactive. And like I said number of buildings. And you know that the other challenge is not just the battery life, but obviously the range. And it’s the transmission rates if you’re taking a data capture every 15 minutes, and then passing that that point. And then what if you miss one? Well, now you’re 30 minutes out before you get the next one, hopefully, right? These guys are talking every 10 to 20 seconds back to the gateway. So you know the reliability of the data as well as the transmission, something I think we were real good at, and love to show it to you love it love.

Ken Smyers 30:33
What would like to what you have to keep doing it says at the end, make sure you submit those products. We have a couple of word shows coming up here. But one in particular the ControlTrends Awards, we’re looking for new innovation. And wireless is a huge category because you’re right. And I keep I know that’s our LED technology has been somebody else’s box because I remember now everything you’re saying about 900 megahertz, you guys private label for for people over the years, because I see the product and I just can’t remember where but I know that’s a very good number. No,

Michael Hadt 31:03
I appreciate that. Yeah, we’ve only in the product to a few folks and again, deliver it globally. So I wouldn’t be surprised if you saw it somewhere. I don’t I don’t know exactly where everything.

Eric Stromquist 31:18
No, this is this is great stuff. And we’d love to have you on I’m wondering for our ControlTrends community if you wanted to reach out and comments and let us know. I’m kind of wondering if we could do like a webinar with you where people could you know, we could just we do that with some people and our ControlTrends communities interested? We’d love to set that up. Maybe have you come into Atlanta? Yeah, we could set up a live stream training and people could participate. So if that’s of interest to you, please let us know and comments, both on the YouTube channel and at ControlTrends. com. But let’s talk about how you guys go to market, you have a p3 program, speak about that and speak about how people would, you know, engage and work with you guys?

Michael Hadt 31:56
Sure. So we have, as mentioned before, we have a very robust network of partners and end user customers all around the world, the p3 programs really designed to work with some of our, you know, distribution partners that are really pushing the product, right, that really want to focus on solving a problem and delivering good technology to their partners as well. So the three p3 partnership is really again, designed to preserve, protect, and provide peace of mind to the marketplace as a whole the three P’s right. And then, you know, as far as engaging with us, we have a nice robust network of partners, that’s all available online to look at as well, a lot of the p3 partners. But if you do have any questions or just want to engage in who might be in your local area to contact us, feel free to send an email anytime to sales, at r l e, t ch.com. Sales at r le tech.com. We’ve be happy to point you in the right direction. If you’d like even in the subject, just put ControlTrends so we know you came from here and be able to make sure we take care of you and all the right ways.

Eric Stromquist 33:10
That’d be great. And you know, like Kenny and I are fond to saying that if you don’t know who to buy from as long as the product works, Kenny and I will sell it DMS controls calm and Strom quest calm. So hey, you know, don’t be a stranger man. We’ve been so well Mike, anything else you want to touch on? This has been fascinating. Anything else before we hop off here.

Michael Hadt 33:31
You know, just excited to kind of get introduced into this, this particular marketplace. Like I said, we’ve been around for a long time and really focused on a couple of the vertical markets. But you know, here we are having an opportunity to jump into, you know, something like this with you guys and, and really grow our recognition throughout the marketplace as well. So you know, sincerely appreciate that opportunity. And definitely look forward to plugging into some of this stuff with you guys some time and showing you how it all works. And staying staying staying engaged, keeping the balls moving forward. Listen, we love that. And again, reach out and comments and let us know because I think we could definitely set up a live stream webinar. And that might be the best way to hit the most amount of people because we do that and people from all over the globe tune into those and we’re able to record them and archive them. So please let us know and comments. Michael can’t tell you how much we appreciate you taking the time. Welcome. I wish Kenya had a casserole to give him.

Unknown Speaker 34:22
I’ll expect that when I make it out to Atlanta.

Eric Stromquist 34:24
Yeah, for sure. And then Orlando, like Kenny says the control trends awards, you can have an issue with HR and I think you guys should go probably definitely have some products on the ballot when we go through the nomination process which be coming up here soon. For our community out there. Please remember Michael hat. And if you look behind him, he’s got hats there. And he says Russo earlier. But that’s not that’s not suitable for RPG audience here. So Michael, thanks so much, buddy.

Michael Hadt 34:51
Hey, no, thank you guys. Have a great day.

Eric Stromquist 34:54
All right, man, Kenny. Wow, what did you think of the stuff my cat?

Ken Smyers 34:59
Well, you don’t have I’ve known them before, but I didn’t realize how incredibly wide their portfolio or your was and how big they are their global company. They’ve been around, you know, several times 35 years anniversary, congratulations. But I was very impressed with technology. I’m very impressed with anybody that’s trying to put the issues that we have in front of us and and solve them. And one of the big things is making things a little bit easier for ordinary service folks to get out there and put something in that they know how to work, it can make it work and give the end users in the building owners in the facility managers, which we’re working with very closely, more options to get things done quicker. So for us, it’s another opportunity to sell a solution. And for the end user, it’s another scalable, affordable solution set. So you’re well done, and I think we’ll see more of them.

Eric Stromquist 35:49
Well, listen, we had some really good post on the site this week, but Kenny let’s just pick one out and talk about it. I think we should probably talk about our friend Tom Shurtleff, what do you think

Ken Smyers 35:58
well that’s that’s incredible too but I thought that you know which again every chose has new news please go to the website see it’s really good stuff but I so certifications believe one has an upcoming advanced technology webinar registered the link on the site but there was two really good ones there and then I already am also has a webinar coming up and so on the website please use the link and register but the two cool things were the running robots and robots running Smart Buildings that right calm post I thought that was really incredible and of course you know in the live footage of the smart building integrator summit I mean we saw some you know when they talked about the people that collect the people that really understand what’s going on I’ve never seen such a major you know kind of like sharing I mean this used to be secrets people never would never share

Eric Stromquist 36:46
of an amazing property proper a property of people

Ken Smyers 36:51
staying away for anything begins with poop I’m staying away from it

Eric Stromquist 36:55
axle would not like you at all but go ahead

Ken Smyers 36:58
anyhow the stage and just you know one set came on one sec came off a very intelligent people the breakout sessions were enormous from that one o’clock to six o’clock afternoon was a whole was worth the trip by itself the attendance zero calm every session was was filled with very interested and people that had a stake in it. So the stakeholders were there they were getting this information the exchange afterwards the question and answer was very, very good. Which on the stage we saw, you know, the one with the Microsoft guy the PhD guy, john Patsy, Mark p talk and exchange going on right there from the different you know, perspectives of people about the same subject was so interesting because it brought in you know, everybody had a great idea about the same thing so it’s just different language telling the same story.

Eric Stromquist 37:44
No, no, I beg to differ there was there was a lot of that going on, but to me it was like a heavyweight fight okay. And and and, you know, fighting over the frame of how we should look at data analytics, and so on and so forth. He had different people and I’m bringing this point guard, I want to say how proud I was of john Hattie because it’s Microsoft guy was brilliant. Fascinating gotta listen to is trying to control the frame in a way that makes Microsoft look like the best solution. And our boy john Patsy man, he took him down a couple pegs I didn’t know you realize it. But john Patsy stood up for the common people, the David against the Goliath. So john petty is our David and but it was fascinating stuff. And to Kenny’s point. I mean, you need to be at these conferences if you can. And we’ve got a bunch of videos we’re going to be posting we’re going to the ones Kenny’s referred to, we’re actually live streams that we just actually put up on the website. But But to your point, Kenny is like, it is like a jostling before rugby match, right? I mean, the balls down there, everybody’s doing the Scrum and everybody’s pushing and trying to get position. And you know, whoever controls the story, controls the narrative is going to get the lion’s share the business was very, very important for all the people in our industry as these is these intruders come in from outside our industry and try to try to change the narrative and change the story to their advantage is very important that we, that we stick to our story we need to upgrade, but we need to stay relevant in this whole sort of transition of business.

Ken Smyers 39:19
Well, I think the point about john Petze,, intelligent man, and it was a very high level conversation agreed that there was some framing there. But I think what it was was the understanding of what edge and the middle were and the cloud and how every building has its own needs. And you must maintain scalability. But But some of the idea that automatically going to the cloud just as a default, you know, everything’s going to go to cloud. JOHN quick. Petze made it very clear, through examples why that doesn’t make sense all the time.

Eric Stromquist 39:52
Right. He did not take the oversimplification, the self serving statement about we’re just going to take you to the Hazara cloud, as fact, stood up to Goliath. So when you see john petty, be sure to pat him on the back back and thank him because he was he was our champion in this doggy dog battle. I mean, we’re looking at this, Kenny, we’ve been talking about it, I mean, it is changing. And you know, it’s like the Trojan horse, right? It’s like, you got to be careful with this. And I’m not saying that. They’re bad people as businesses business. But you know what we have to tell our story, or we’re going to get run over, in my humble opinion.

Ken Smyers 40:31
I agree with you wholeheartedly. And that’s that’s I think it began with a master systems integrator initiative that began four or five years ago. And now it’s already developed into some you know, that they want to get rid of master systems. The whole thing about master systems integrator has been overused and overtaxed almost like it did and everything else. Because everybody’s saying Me too. And I am also a master systems integrator. Well, the the another very important thing to happen at the SP is because the other guy up there was Jason help me he was saying how the criteria that there’s there’s a new, new way to establish whether or not you’re a master systems integrator, and that’s your certifications. And that’s, that’s your ability to answer certain questions. Have you ever done this before and done that, which was also a very interesting aspect that the the division 25 now it’s coming out to the end users to building owners and managers and these national portfolios and Microsoft was one of them, is they’re not going to be fooled again, you had that nice post up there. So we won’t be fooled again, a reference to the who, and and yet, the Microsoft individual gave us an example how recently they got stung again by somebody out there providing a single source, proprietary system in a Microsoft campus. And they were furious about it, but the way the paperwork went and the way the you check boxes off the back, that’s an open protocol, but it’s not necessarily an open system, or belongs to an open system and how the tools can be factory. That was pretty clever, how their now coming to a ability to register the 10 commandments of building automation and integration, you cannot do this, you cannot do this, you must do this, you cannot do that. And so we’re going to see that ultimately become part of a specification.

Eric Stromquist 42:15
Well, we could for sure, but let’s let’s talk about some happier subjects. Let’s talk about our friend Tom Shurtleff and intelligent buildings and what they’re up to, because that was another interview we got to do. And Tom, Tom and intelligent buildings, you talk about a group of really clever people that are really creating value in the marketplace. today. Oh, absolutely.

Ken Smyers 42:34
Well, I like you said it. Tom’s a very eloquent guy, he’s smart. He really understands the business well, and he understands the business of buildings. And see that’s where this show for him. They’re taking their solutions, and they’re providing it for the team that owns the building, whether it’s an office facility manager, a building owner, and then user, and, and they talking about the big jobs, the National footprints, the enterprise level stuff, and, and he broke down cyber security in this interview so well, because I mean, we have a post where we go into their site, Introduction to cyber security and building systems, that’s also a video on the post. But Tom, just really, truly he has a passion to explain things. Well, because he really means what he says and knows what he says. And that is that once upon a time, it was critical that people woke up, did a cyber security assessment, where’s our organization, to they worked with a legitimate company that could provide solutions and give them checklist and give them your basic operating instructions. And how get everybody committed because it’s a it’s a whole organizational effort. It’s not just the manufacturer is not just this person effort. Everybody needs to participate in the cyber security program. But then the third part, which was the missing part was the monitoring and how intelligent buildings has the ability now to monitor both at the enterprise level, the network level, but also at the controller, the one that was really extraordinary.

Eric Stromquist 43:54
No, it really is some exciting stuff those guys are coming out with and we’ll be keeping track on the Be sure to watch that interview, give you a flavor for it. And they got some great stuff. They’re coming out with the Hey, you know, Kenny, we our next guest is teed up and ready to go. So I’ve got a little bit of a rant to go on here. But for most of us was the thermostat, we get our hands on the first thermostat. Next thing you know is communicating. Next thing you know, we’re in the light commercial system, then we’re full board hooked into data analytics man, once you get sucked into this industry, man, it is hard to get out. It’s hard to walk away. But our next guest Kenny is somebody who was able, through sheer willpower to walk away from the lure of data analytics and Smart Buildings and HPC controls. How about introducing this guy who’s gone beyond the 12 step controls program?

Ken Smyers 44:49
With you haven’t lost you for a second, but I’m talking about Tim Vogel, Tim Vogel’s a big friend of ControlTrends. He has been with us in the MC world. He was one of the early guys that adopted social media very effectively, and led camps to campaign for many years was very successful. Tim has transitioned he’s gone from the marketing to the sales side. So Tim, welcome to the show. And it’s good to see you again and tell us about your new environments.

Eric Stromquist 45:15
Yeah. Welcome, Tim.

Tim Vogel 45:16
How you doing, guys? Thank you so much for having me. It’s fantastic to be with you again. I’ve missed you.

Eric Stromquist 45:22
Good, good. It’s great. You’re smiling. You don’t look like Keith Richards anymore, man, you know, and again, I’m kind of using the analogy because once people get in our industry, they don’t get out. Yeah, you’ve gone you’ve gone to a parallel industry. You got into the commercial side and your mom industrial side. So I Kenny says, tell us who you’re with now, and and what new things are you playing with?

Tim Vogel 45:42
Absolutely. So there’s quite a few differences. But there’s also a lot of similarities. So my new company that I’m with is called flow rocks, FL, O w, ar x. And we are in the industrial pump and valve and filtration side of the business. So we work a lot with my name, we work a lot with pulp and paper, a lot of wastewater. And we’ve been in business for about 40 years now we’re a Finnish company. So you know, we have a lot of kind of very global diversity on our team, a lot of very smart people, a lot of masters out of PhDs. And that’s carried over into the US team as well.

Eric Stromquist 46:20
Well, hang on for first question, I gotta ask because you know, I’ve heard part of doing an interview with a Finnish company, is you have to be hard as nails. And what they basically do is they make you go into the saunas within, if you can survive the saunas, then you get to go back for a second interview any truth to that rumor.

Tim Vogel 46:38
So I got I got hired in. And when I got hired in, then I went through the interview process, which was a trip to Finland, where you spend some time in a 240 degree sauna. And then you go jump into a frozen lake, do some, do some naked snow angels jump back in, and then go in for singing and some fantastic dinner. So they said, If I lived, I would continue to be a part of the team. And if I died, then they’d have to look for someone else,

Eric Stromquist 47:05
in our condolences to the people that they offered the job to before Tim,

Ken Smyers 47:10
or else if you didn’t think you’re going into the Navy SEALs first. If you pass out,

Tim Vogel 47:14
yeah, it was, it was painful, but it was also very relaxing. And after the fact,

Ken Smyers 47:20
well, you know, the, some of the obvious things that we can talk about the similarities that you had, in your previous position, and some of the expertise that you had there and how it applies. Now, to the same, you know, core level with people, you know, Pete’s all that’s telling the story, it’s all about the stratification of interest, people, summer engineering centric summer operations. And so you have to make your, you have to pay dues to each one of those sea level players or operational level players. So tell us a little bit about the similarities first.

Tim Vogel 47:47
So similarities, I mean, from a perspective of technology, so when I was at MC controls, we had KMC commander, which is an awesome smart building, IoT platform that can go in, you know, it’s easy, smart, secure, all those things. But then when you go, and then over here, flow rocks, I represent our IoT platform, which is called Malibu, and then the whole flow rock smart solutions suite of products. When you go in, you talk about technology, whether it’s in the building sector, the industrial sector, you got to know your audience, like you said, so if you go in, you’re talking to engineers, you’re gonna, you’re talking high level are gonna be talking technical, how’s it going? What are the parts and pieces? When you go into an end user, and you’re talking to, you know, let’s say, a manager, or like you said, sea level, VP level, you know, they’re thinking strategy. So how does the IoT strategy that we want to implement that’s where digital transformation comes in, you know, where does that play in with the solutions that we can provide. So that’s when we’re talking about KPI, dashboards and analytics to help them make their decisions. That’s when we could talk about kind of future technology like blockchain or artificial intelligence, that’s where that would come in. And then you have the guys that are on the front lines, working the individual pieces of equipment, or on the building side, you know, they’re, they’re running the controls, they’re maintaining the boiler, the fans, whatever it is, and you know, you want to talk to them about the benefits there, here’s how I can give you better alarming, here’s how I can better help you triage what your issues are, where the maintenance issues are, as opposed to just going around and doing maintenance, because it’s been six months, maybe you want to do maintenance for eight to nine months. But this one needs to be done right now. How can we help you do that so that your life is easier, you’re not running around putting out fires all the time. And, you know, so talk to your audit audiences differently, and then using the technology in a way that makes sense for them. So that’s a marketing thing. That’s a sales thing. And that’s one of the things we’ve been able to carry over.

Eric Stromquist 49:38
But listen, you, you you were just like the baddest ass valve company on the planet. I mean, you know, the value handle? I mean, so how does that apply? I mean, are people use the you guys, you guys, you have smart pounds? Are you able to get that data analytics up to people? And how are they using?

Tim Vogel 49:52
Absolutely. So we have very high quality valves, I would say the highest quality in the industry. Same thing with our pumps, and the we have, you know, excellent parts and service when it comes to industrial filtration. So we can connect all of those pieces of equipment. And we can provide the data analytics and you know, people want it people need it, you know, it’s something running efficiently, and then again, triage and maintenance issues. But the other cool thing about our product is that we can connect to any type of equipment that’s out in the industrial environment, we can connect to not only our pumps and valves, but competitor pumps and valves, it would be foolish of us to think that when we went into a particular end customer, that they would have everything flow rocks, you don’t see that anywhere, would you ever go into a building and expect to see all the same type of valve for all the same type of company? And you

Eric Stromquist 50:40
were when you were the marketing manager? k MC, you expected that?

Unknown Speaker 50:43
Unless, of course, yes.

Tim Vogel 50:47
You know, that’s the whole thing. So when we first set out at flow rocks to start developing our smart solutions and our platform, it was originally to how can we connect our pumps and vows, but anyone that has a singular focus on a single piece of or branded piece of equipment, that short sighted, you’re not gonna be able to see the long term value of IoT. And, and that’s why you’re starting to see so many platforms come out that say they can connect to so many other things. So, you know, we’re able to connect not only to our stuff, but third party stuff, and it’s stuff that we don’t even necessarily have direct play into, you know, it doesn’t have to have a valve or a pump connected to it for us to be able to monitor it, you know, tank levels, vibrations on bearings, motors, energy consumption, meters, whatever it is, we’re able to connect that and, you know, visualize it and give you all those analytics.

Eric Stromquist 51:38
So what are the protocols that you see on the industrial side? Primarily, I mean, I know, my advice is big one, we see a lot, but what else

Unknown Speaker 51:44
on the net, twin cat,

Tim Vogel 51:48
you know, and then all of those run on multiple different variations, depending on what the infrastructure is, you know, if it’s Ethernet, you know, there’s variations on Ethernet, if it’s, what’s the fiber optic, if it’s fiber optic, that’s something different. And then wireless solutions, you know, that that kind of runs the gamut, whatever, you need to bear in the industrial environment, usually having huge amounts of electricity coming in lots of metal. So wireless isn’t quite there yet, similar to buildings. But you know, I think mesh has some some future potential, how we

Eric Stromquist 52:18
would think that preventive or predictive analytics will be more critical. I know the boiler controls we sell, that have that built in because again, if a line goes down, or valve fails, in the middle of a production runs, I mean, you could be talking a ton of money. So is that part of what you guys are able to do to like, monitor cycle rates, and predict when Hey, we’re gonna need to change the seals here, or the actuator at this particular time?

Tim Vogel 52:45
Absolutely. So one of the things that I’ve had more and more conversations, or more conversations with people than almost anything else, is vibration monitoring. So many companies in the industrial world now imagine, you know, commercial building world as well. They have a routine that they do once a month, they take a 45 second reading and vibration, and then they compare it to last month and see if there’s an issue. Well, our team’s been able to document burying, failing, with vibration monitoring, real time consistent vibration monitoring, over the course of just six hours. So if you’re doing it at once every 30 days versus six hours. That’s a big difference. Yeah. And so just little things like that we’re able to see, you know, is something going to go down. And the more failures we document, the more our platform is going to be able to recognize it. And we could send alarms earlier and sooner based on the type of equipment that we have. Same thing with temperatures, same thing with pressure, all of that. Are you starting

Eric Stromquist 53:39
to see artificial intelligence or predictive algorithms come into play in your product?

Tim Vogel 53:45
Yes, absolutely. So I mentioned that we are finished company, finish companies and the feminine government. If you’re a high enough clock caliber and been around for long enough, you can get very tight relationship. So we have a very close relationship, government, we’ve received grants from them to start developing our AI. And we’re expected to receive even more this year. So we are running a current beta test of artificial intelligence right now. And hopefully, we could run that or release that full time out into the marketplace in the next 12 months, hopefully.

Ken Smyers 54:19
Okay, my very impressive I did go on the internet and have checked it out. And one thing I could say about this is that the some of the differences, because we’re gonna transition, we’re through the similarities, but the differences are that now you’re in a major investment, you’re not talking, we always were in scalability, these are things to get the foot the door, and then move from there, get them to the network, get into the backbone, and perhaps you include different, you know, sub structures within the building, so that you can put them all in one one platform single face. But what you’re doing is you’re working in a very engineering centric, very high dollar, very expensive. How, what’s a typical installation, I mean, when you’re, when you’re working out there, and you’re, you’re looking at projects, I mean, we talked, you know, less than 30,000 50,000, hundred thousand, whatever you’re working and stuff, that’s you’re in the millions right off the bat almost most of the time, aren’t you.

Tim Vogel 55:13
So if we talk about systems overall, in terms of hardware, that’s out in a production environment, you know, of course, that is millions of dollars that we are monitoring, if it’s a failure, it goes down the pump, you know, we’re talking 10,000 15,000 $20,000 cost, just to fix it, plus all the downtime and decrease the capacity, whatever it is, for our solution. I am excited about it, because of how affordable it is, you guys know the IoT adage of plan big, start small scale fast, we’re able to do that and to do it in a way that’s affordable. I’ve seen some pricing from some of the big guys that are out there pitching smart and industry. And we’re talking high six figures into the seven figures a year, just to have your money monitoring, and we talked about is anything from let’s say $2,000 a year, upward, depending on how many points you’re pulling in, if you want to talk about initial installation. You know, I have several quotes out there right now. And I think the smallest one I’m running with is a very simple project, that’s 15,000, that gives you the hardware to monitor the integration and the cloud platform. And then you know, there’s another one that’s upwards to 100,000. So maybe there’s a huge range. But all of those are starting small, because then we can grow out from that. And that’s where you know that scale fast and you know, see the benefits IoT, the ROI really starts to come out. But it’s affordable. You know, operate its operating expenses, not necessarily capital expense, unless you’re doing a big, broad entire facility.

Ken Smyers 56:49
Amazing. And that’s cool. Plan Big Start small scale fast. That’s like that one. How much does remote monitoring fit in? You know, we’re talking about artificial intelligence. But how much about the wearable technologies? Do y’all get into the remote support? Because you can’t be all places all times. But you could have problems everywhere? Do you? Have you guys ever made that kind of technology where you’re using wearable technology, and maybe

Unknown Speaker 57:13
artificial or not artificial augmented reality? Something like that?

Ken Smyers 57:16
Well, yeah, all the above me, because we saw a couple presentations with the art of the wearable technology where they’re out in the fields. And the guys in the you know, he’s in your home base in Finland, but he’s working on a very special project. And they need the number one product manager and engineer to be assisting. So the guys wearing wearable technology,

Eric Stromquist 57:35
something like that.

Ken Smyers 57:36
Yeah. And then, because it seems like some of the applications you have that fit your movement in that direction,

Tim Vogel 57:42
I think it would be a huge fit. That’s not our wheelhouse. But what we could do is because we have an open platform that’s cloud based and internet based, we have an open API, we would certainly integrate with something like that, they go out, they map to third, 3d environment, they match it to what the glasses are seeing. And then they could see the real time data coming from our platform. So that’s the type of thing that is really important with IoT is you got to be able to collaborate. And if you’re trying to provide everything to everyone, you know, you’re not going to be the you’re not be the right solution.

Ken Smyers 58:13
You know, the, I just wanna ask one more question regarding that, because we just came from the buildings world and digital twins, the new hot one of the hot buttons, there were Oh, sure. Yep. Do you guys have an equivalent or version of digital twin like so that you’re actually monitoring computer basically, you know, it mirrors what’s out there, physically installed or deployed?

Tim Vogel 58:33
Sure. So digital twin is kind of a loaded a loaded term, I think there’s multiple ways to look at it, the eventual hope. So on one side of the spectrum, the eventual hope of digital twin is that you would be able to plop in a new piece of machinery digitally, and see how it operates within the process, that is going to involve a lot of machine to machine learning a lot of artificial intelligence, and a lot of data sources that are being collected. So that’s the future hope of digital twin, we are not doing that. What we are doing is we develop our entire platform is based on 3d imagery. So we go in for each end user, we create a 3d image of what’s in the environment for two reasons. One, if someone logs in, they immediately get an intuitive understanding of what’s going on, when they see real time data, and what’s going on with a particular piece of machinery that’s in that 3d model. They can then also click on that and see, where’s my data sheet, where’s my installation guide, where’s my troubleshooting guide, and here’s a video on how to change the hose and the pump, that sort of thing. You know, being able to see all of that, again, it makes it intuitive. But in terms of the true digital twin, you know, if I change this set point, what’s it going to do? You know, three things down four things down in the process? What’s the end result of my final product going to be? not quite there yet. But we do have the analytics capabilities. And again, we’re working on the artificial intelligence to get there.

Eric Stromquist 59:55
Very, very cool. We’ll listen as we wind down Tim, a couple things I I want you to have your Ernest Hemingway moment here. I want to, to sort of do like a Farewell to Arms sort of your farewell to building automation controls as you knew it. So in all seriousness, now, you sort of out of the industry and started to try to get get you to answer this early on in the interview, and we got sidetracked. But know what what are some things now that you’ve stepped away? That, that you’ve sort of wish you had thought about or new? Or maybe what you see the future being? Or maybe what you see the roadblocks, man, it’s kind of an open frame. In other words, if you were to tell him now talking to the Tim, that was back working at AMC controls, what would you have told him?

Tim Vogel 1:00:42
So I would say that, you know, IoT is changing a lot of industries, because you’re getting a lot of new players coming in that weren’t there before. So we’re seeing in the building space with companies like Dell and Intel coming in, while the Mainstays in the group are continuing to rise and change their product. But they’re not coming in with kind of, you know, hard hitting industry changing thing. While these outside companies try and do the same thing. On the industrial side, it’s the same thing, you have new companies trying to come in a lot of startups, and then you have a lot of the existing automation guys that are coming in and trying to come up with their own stuff. So my recommendation would be continued to press in with those innovative technologies. And don’t be scared of the big guys, because they’re going to be bringing in a whole bunch of baggage with them. They’ll be talking a lot of new language, but they’re not going to be presenting a lot of new things. The other thing too, is on the building side, there’s a huge concern around energy usage and comfort. In the industrial environment, that’s less of a concern. Obviously, you want to steward your resources well, but if you need to run a pump, you’re going to push as much electricity as necessary and to run the pump. Otherwise, you want the pump to run efficiently to make sure you’re getting your output. The other thing that the industry side, and industry is not as concerned about comfort, just put on a hard hat and you’re good to go. But then the industry, industry is also extremely interested in is throughput and safety and downtime. So all that could be important also to buildings, I would say because of the revenue generated from the processes themselves. That’s where industry comes in. However, my recommendation to the building side would be how can you tag your product not only from a comfort and energy saving side, but how can you use it to help drive revenue and how to buildings make revenue by keeping their tenants if they’re renting the space out? or making sure that the it’s not just comfort, but making sure that the employees working in a space if it’s an own building, have everything they need in the technology, they need to make sure that they’re doing their jobs, well said.

Eric Stromquist 1:02:45
Well said, Well, listen, how do people get ahold of? You know what? Give them the website? Because, you know, I tell you what, if I want a big badass fab, I’m calling you man. Not I’m not gonna call fish. I’m not gonna call Fox but I’m not gonna call the Zurich. I’m calling you how they get perfect.

Tim Vogel 1:02:58
Yeah, so our website is flow rocks calm. That’s FL o w. Our Oh x.com if you want to get a hold of me, Eric, you have my phone number. I do but you can email me at Tim dot Vogel at flow rocks calm. Okay, it’s always a pleasure, you guys. Oh, I know our community misses you.

Eric Stromquist 1:03:18
You did such a great job and or no communication. I gotta ask you one more favor. I keep saying that gone over your right channel. You You hit that one time before we sign off?

Unknown Speaker 1:03:28
Oh sure. Yeah. hooked in here. Let me

Eric Stromquist 1:03:30
I will bid you adieu now.

I love that kind of stuff. Kenny. That’s great.

Hey, man. Yeah,

you know that Yeah, we can hear it Tim and maybe it’s the microphone dude. Probably the microphone optic. You gotta get a bigger Gong man. But that’s just I’m just saying I worked it worked a man. Thanks so much Tim. Appreciate your brother. You take care. Thanks, guys have a look Kenny. I don’t know about you man. I always like Tim Bogle really bright guys so much fun to get up with him

Ken Smyers 1:04:01
Yeah, I mean he’s just loves his job again and so he’s young guy with a lot of brains and lot of smarts and a lot of a lot of initiative and he’s always been really a good friends ControlTrends communities because he shared information with us all the time. He always said you guys see this one I love this you know the plan Big Start small scale fast I love hearing that new good dialogue that makes sense because we all ultimately like you say tell the story and these are good bits to tell a story you know throughput safety downtime how he was able to you know segregate you know the big differences of to industrial versus building automation in commercial buildings but I want to say something before I forget and that was that your the Marvel Comics impact everybody and whatever, but your caricatures that you put up for the the post for real cyber security solutions that technique you did there made us all Marvel characters

Eric Stromquist 1:04:53
your man

Ken Smyers 1:04:54
knock Avengers that’s it I felt I felt like that was you know who’s your favorite Avenger?

Depends Iron Man for a while and the Hulk then also like Thor you know and i like i like the women the women are every one of them was worth worth attention.

Eric Stromquist 1:05:14
Now they are well my son actually they just got into it my son Hank so he loves Hawk now he’ll he’ll take his stuff his toys and dominating GM Hong Kong Hong Kong he loves Hong Kong Captain America but but me I’m a Thor guy. I you know that whole mythology is is really intriguing to me the word Loki and Odin and all those guys so well cool. Yeah, it was it was it was great. So we know we’re trying to keep things entertaining. We’re trying to keep things fresh. Our sponsor this week has been dg Lux Be sure to click the link get a free free tutorial on that with our friends Arthur and Eugene mazo and the rest of the team there if you’re interested me an advertiser on ControlTrends reach out to us we are selling advertising spots now because can are getting older and we need to get paid. But and Microsoft is kicking our ass so we’re afraid to Jeff be both and Bill Gates. I mean they we dream about them and night wake up and cold sweats man, because that’s probably more too conspiratorial, I guess, right?

Ken Smyers 1:06:18
No, no, it’s just that we saw common. You know, we’ve written about it. We’ve heard Ken St. Clair get up on the highest mountain and say it’s coming. It’s coming. And and and when it comes, it’s like still a surprise. But then again, what Tim Vogel said to you know about the you know, it’s a new story. They’re talking a new language, but it’s the same thing. And it’s the same building, it’s the same energy of the building and control of equipment so you can’t get scared, become afraid of somebody or intimidated by something that they literally have no control over. They still got they have to have that service. Like the idea

Eric Stromquist 1:06:51
i got i gotta tell you something I am really convinced down I’ve been doing some deep dives into marketing and stuff like that we get some people just really good marketing our industry Tim Bogle is a really good marketer. But I’m, I’m convinced now that how you say something is equally or if not more important than what you’re saying? Right? I mean, because we all are kind of doing the same sort of technologies, but the people that can frame it in a certain way and the people that can say it in a way that resonates are the people that are going to win I’m a big big believer that marketing is a huge differentiator now and sales is a huge differentiator. So we’re going to talk more about that but Kenny before I forget Hey, did Mark p talk just do an awesome job filling in for us last week when you were in jail was that amazing or what? Well I was not in jail You were so let’s just get this get this story straight before it gets any any control the frame here but but in all seriousness Mark p talk filled in for Kenny me at the habit contra did a marvelous job so if you haven’t seen that episode, check it out. It’s a shorter episode but did Mark just do a great job or what

Ken Smyers 1:07:57
he sure did. He’s He’s a natural he’s a pro and and the folks that were with him, the guests he had also did just marvelous job paying and the you know, both of the other ones, just marvelous, the guy from an external and SSG

Eric Stromquist 1:08:13
Kendall was great too.

Ken Smyers 1:08:14
Well, she just again they’re all they’re made for the jobs and they were there all vice presidents or above so I mean, this is this is big stuff. You know. So the really know their business and they enjoyed it. And it was great to see them all sitting on the same couch with Mark. Right doing a great job. Yeah.

Eric Stromquist 1:08:30
Cool. Well listen, and quite a crowd we had watching them. But listen, before we hop off is anything else you want to?

Ken Smyers 1:08:37
Well, I wasn’t sure if you want dimension or not. But don’t you and I have some travel plans for this upcoming Friday?

Eric Stromquist 1:08:42
We do but let’s let that be a surprise. You’ll tune into next week’s show and you’ll hear where Ken and Kenny are going on a mission and undercover top secret mission. And if you want to know you’re gonna have to tune in next week. But with that Kenny smilers was today A special thanks to our guests, Michael hat. From our r le technologies and Tim Vogel. What’s up? It’s got a cool company sounding name again, what’s your fellow rock slow rock solid rocks? Yeah. So thanks to those two guys. And thank you for tuning in. Remember, be bold, stay in control, stay relevant indeed.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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